Curse

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Hello all, this is my 7-hero setup which I have been using, it may not be the power fullest build as I am limited to Core, Faction and Nightfall skills as I do not yet own Proph or EotN (but will do soon). I have basically merged and improved several builds I have had fun with over the years and I must say it works quite well in both NM and HM (VQ, etc., but I need to do a few tries in Elite areas)

My Weapon/Rune setup is not yet finished on all the heroes, but I'm going to fill them up quickly. The biggest counter to this build is probably a large Djinn group, it can spike the team quite quickly if the ranger cannot interrupt it fast, but thankfully most of the time you get healed back before dying.

SoS Rit - My character as I cannot get any good necro builds without Proph/EotN
Barrage Ranger - Barrage with interrupts, as well as some weapon support
Healer - Dedicated healer.
Minion Bomber - Creates minions fast, the empty slot is where Masochism was, I need to put something there.
SoGM rit - the rit from the 2man spirit team, has some duplicate spirits I have, I need to change that.
Protector - Dedicated protect monk.
Wannabe Panic - A panic mesmer I changed as I cannot get panic and some proph skills.
100b Warrior - attack support.

I am looking for some constructive criticism!

What we have so far
(Earth Ele is a possible replacement for 100b)

Original

jeri blade · Mar 29, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

sorry but u cant run 2 of the same spirit
so having 2 spirits of pain and 2 spirits of Shadowsong is point less one will just die if both get cast

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Not enough e manage on monk or mesmer heroes. Yóu need stuff like waste not want not, power drain, leech signet etc..

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeri blade

sorry but u cant run 2 of the same spirit
so having 2 spirits of pain and 2 spirits of Shadowsong is point less one will just die if both get cast

Yeah, I know, I stated that in my original post that I still need to fix that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimmNinja

Not enough e manage on monk or mesmer heroes. Yóu need stuff like waste not want not, power drain, leech signet etc..

I have radiant insignias on my monks and they don't seem to run out of energy, but I think you a re right regarding the mesmer. Thanks.

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

An ideal set up for you would be something like this:
SoS (you)
ST rit with some left over offensive spirtis and some rit heal (pwk, mbas etc.) ( st>sogm for mobillity but its doesn't matter too much)
Pain of Disenchantment necro with some chanelling skills
AoTL mm in the mean time use jagged bones untill you get proph
Command Paragon with anthems for spirits
Ineptitude mesmer
Panic mesmer (when you get eotn and proph) other wise add another necro with Spiteful spirit
Healing burst monk.

Bandwagon · Mar 29, 2011, 03:17 PM // 15:17

The Monk bars are, in a word, poop.

I'll start with the worst offender, your red bar.

Healing Breeze is trash and does not synergize with the elite. Words of Comfort is redundant when you can run condition removal that heals on removal (dismiss condition), it also doesn't heal all that much when the condition is met. Jamei's Gaze is terrible on a HP/ energy basis, don't use it, use 5e heals. Heroes are terrible using Glyph, they will use its effect on 5e skills just as much as 10-15e skills, ditch it and heal party, if you want party heals on a monk primary, use Healing Burst.

Your Barrage ranger has no E-management, and being a hero, he will not prioritize his weapon spells when they matter most. Odds are he will be at critical energy most of the time due to barrage + weapon spell use.

Heroes do not prioritize Zealous Benediction on targets at >50% HP ergo it becomes an elite Jamei's Gaze in prot prayers, it may trigger the conditional energy gain, but more often than not if that happens, its just a stroke of luck.
Furthermore, heroes spam Reversal of Fortune like its going out of style, if they have infinite energy, its not a problem, but they don't.

Your Minion bomber is both constantly raising minions, and casting D nova (and JB when it comes up) rarely does that allow it to make full use of its Channel Split.

Your sporting Shadowsong and Pain and your SOGM is sporting Shadowsong and Pain, can't have both bring these spirits, choose one, stick to it.

Your Mesmer's Emanagement is going to suffer for spamming all that wastrel + SP skills, I would dip into Inspiration and grab some e management.

Your bars overall are not terrible, but it is definitely not ready for areas with heavy AOE, your heroes will bunch and get wiped quickly. obviously micro can minimize this, but bringing a ST rit / passive party heals / stand your ground can also provide the needed defense to get around HM's more gimmicky mechanics. I would consider subbing the ranger out for another frontline, heroes suck at prioritizing interrupts or another midliner since you have 2 spirit spammers and a MM.

Grim Aragorn · Mar 29, 2011, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimmNinja

Not enough e manage on monk or mesmer heroes. Yóu need stuff like waste not want not, power drain, leech signet etc..

not true, glyph has always sufficed for me, with 7 heroes you can pack so much damage that your monk(s) really dont have to heal very much hence not needing to split attribs for garbage skills

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

The Monk bars are, in a word, poop.

I'll start with the worst offender, your red bar.

Healing Breeze is trash and does not synergize with the elite. Words of Comfort is redundant when you can run condition removal that heals on removal (dismiss condition), it also doesn't heal all that much when the condition is met. Jamei's Gaze is terrible on a HP/ energy basis, don't use it, use 5e heals. Heroes are terrible using Glyph, they will use its effect on 5e skills just as much as 10-15e skills, ditch it and heal party, if you want party heals on a monk primary, use Healing Burst.

Your Barrage ranger has no E-management, and being a hero, he will not prioritize his weapon spells when they matter most. Odds are he will be at critical energy most of the time due to barrage + weapon spell use.

Heroes do not prioritize Zealous Benediction on targets at >50% HP ergo it becomes an elite Jamei's Gaze in prot prayers, it may trigger the conditional energy gain, but more often than not if that happens, its just a stroke of luck.
Furthermore, heroes spam Reversal of Fortune like its going out of style, if they have infinite energy, its not a problem, but they don't.

Your Minion bomber is both constantly raising minions, and casting D nova (and JB when it comes up) rarely does that allow it to make full use of its Channel Split.

Your sporting Shadowsong and Pain and your SOGM is sporting Shadowsong and Pain, can't have both bring these spirits, choose one, stick to it.

Your Mesmer's Emanagement is going to suffer for spamming all that wastrel + SP skills, I would dip into Inspiration and grab some e management.

Your bars overall are not terrible, but it is definitely not ready for areas with heavy AOE, your heroes will bunch and get wiped quickly. obviously micro can minimize this, but bringing a ST rit / passive party heals / stand your ground can also provide the needed defense to get around HM's more gimmicky mechanics. I would consider subbing the ranger out for another frontline, heroes suck at prioritizing interrupts or another midliner since you have 2 spirit spammers and a MM.

I never really gave much thought in the monk bars, I got them from a friend that played gw really long and efficient and just thought it should suffice. Here are the changes I did, I would ask you to critique it again, and I have some further questions:

I kicked out the SoGM rit and Prot rit for a SF rit or a SL rit, which variant is the best? EDIT: I forgot about PwK, should I add that? I think I improved the healer a bit. Also I added some more energy management to my mesmer.

Is the Dagger Spam Derv good for anything? I found it here: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build

/A_Dagger_Spam_Derv

Also since I kicked out two heroes, what should be the last hero? Right now I have my SoS, a Healer, Dagger Spam Derv, Minion Bomber, ST Rit, Wannabe Panic and 100b, that leaves room for one more. Paragon?

Also I have no idea what else to do with my Minion Bomber, the current one is the Splinter bomber variation of this one: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber

Keep in mind that I can only have NF heroes + Nika, that means I cannot add more necros or rits (at least not primary).

EDIT: I also ditched Heal Party for Healing Whisper.

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Lose rez on monk. Add e manage, make mm /mo and add prots, lose the derv as assassin dagger chains are not good with current hero AI. And add the para I suggested earlier. The warrior is passable but maybe a derv might be a bit better cause 100b in hm is quite underpowered without whirlwind and mop etc.

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimmNinja

Lose rez on monk. Add e manage, make mm /mo and add prots, if you are going to use 2 rit heros, make one ST prot and one sogm with left over offensive spirits otherwise that much heal is a bit overkill

I can only use one Rt hero as I have only Razah from NF. These are just variations I made and I want to know which one is the best to use.

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed@

I can only use one Rt hero as I have only Razah from NF. These are just variations I made and I want to know which one is the best to use.

Yeah have edited my post now.

Gypsie Ettin · Mar 29, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Seems you forgot Shelter on your ST hero, Chaos Storm and Mistrust on your "Panic Hero", E-management on your monk hero. It also seems like you forgot, or maybe didnt know, that melee-heroes are very unefficient.

Oh, and the Paragon hero lacks an elite it seems.

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsie Ettin

Seems you forgot Shelter on your ST hero.

Yeah, that skill looks good. But I'll incorporate it after you guys recommend me which version of the ST rit should I use (I have 3 versions and can only use one since I only have Razah). EDIT: Saw your edit, I threw mistrust out, but will incorporate it again, and Chaos Storm is a Proph skill. I am using melee heroes as my other hero choices are limited, I have 2 warriors, 2 rangers, 2 healers, 1 necro, 1 mesmer, 2 eles, 1 para, 1 dervish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimmNinja

Lose rez on monk. Add e manage, make mm /mo and add prots, lose the derv as assassin dagger chains are not good with current hero AI. And add the para I suggested earlier. The warrior is passable but maybe a derv might be a bit better cause 100b in hm is quite underpowered without whirlwind and mop etc.

If I lose the Rez on monk I have rez left only on a single character, my SF. I do not have 3 SF's, I only have one Rit, those builds are just variants and I need you guys to tell me which one looks best.

I still need to add energy manage, and I have to think about prot on MB. Added a Para, but I have no idea about Para skills, I added something like this:

Also, I still need one more hero, since I have only one Rt I can only use one SF variant, and that leaves me with one free hero spot. (9 heroes and I can only use one SF out of the 3 = 6 heroes). So which hero would you recommend adding?

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 05:21 PM // 17:21

for paragon look at the para in this photo.
http://i54.tinypic.com/f3atg8.jpg
also use the minion bomber from this photo, just replace the elite with JB

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Thanks. I have no idea what the last skill is on your Para bar as it's covered by the disabled sign. Also sice I didn't have the last two skills on your MM bar I decided to use prot and added a few skills.

The two things I still need is an opinion on which variant of the SF healer should I use (and if I should add SwK or Shelter to it) and what my last hero should be.

Variant 1 seems energy heavy. Variants 2 and 3 look good to me.

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 05:48 PM // 17:48

the last skill is we shall return. it is disable because I only use it for emergencies and normally the para is the only hero left alive during a wipe.

stick witrh varient 1 as boon +spawning does reduce e loss a lot.

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimmNinja

stick witrh varient 1 as boon +spawning does reduce e loss a lot.

I guess, it all looks good... Also, thanks for all the help.

This is my current bar, I copied the Dervish from the photo you showed me as I remember seeing the build before. What more is to be done?

GrimmNinja · Mar 29, 2011, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Maybe add an earth ele instead of the warrior? Wisp me ingame if you want a version of that build or any other advice. Although getting Proph and Eotn Will heal a great deal.
ign: The Grimm Ninja

Speed@ · Mar 29, 2011, 08:06 PM // 20:06

All I can say is wow. The build is working great, the various defense combinations scattered throughout characters negate most damage (shouts, aegis). Healing is fast and party wide. This is way better than what I used to have. Thanks again guys!

...But if there are any more improvements to make, I would be happy to listen

EDIT: Yeah, I am also interested about that earth ele.

FyrFytr998 · Mar 31, 2011, 01:54 AM // 01:54

This is just my personal opinion, but enemies rarely clump enough for my Rit to use Painful Bond effectively. Also you have zero e-management.

Now you're bar is not too far off from mine. I too like to run Channeling and Communing together. I don't trust the hero to place Shadowsong effectively. So I let my other Rit run a ST variant. Now for energy I Run Boon of Creation. After placing every spirit, my bar is back to full energy. Some say Spirit Siphon is better, and it may be, but it slows me down personally. Who cares if it can get stripped? My spirits are already laid out before I pull enemies. I also dropped Armor of unfeeling as well. Why? For one my energy is full, so I can recast no probs if I have to. Two, I tend to move my spirits around with Summon Spirits during battles to keep enemies from getting AoE on them.

So what do I use in my open skill slot? Well I'm kinda partial to Necrosis myself. It's a better version of Discord with a little less damage. Between spirit beatdowns and hero damage, I find that Necrosis is a handy little finisher. And with a Sunspear rank 7 or higher you're getting 80 plus points of spammable armor ignoring damage for 5 energy. And enemies always have a hex or condition on them usually.

Just my .02